Priority: A Potential Fix to the Turn System

Priority: A Potential Fix to the Turn System

In Wizard 101 throughout every age of PvP one constant has remained true. Whether you are a Jade Angel, a standard meta player or a level 10 starting PvP for the first time you have probably at one point or the other wanted a change to the turn system. In today’s meta, turn advantage is huge and often game deciding. The ability to hit, heal, shield and dispel before your opponent while maintaining perfect reactive potential is huge. Many have advocated for a spell to reverse turn advantage or even a complete revamp of the system. While a spell could be beneficial depending on the mechanics, it is virtually impossible for KI to completely revamp the turn system this late in the game. Thus, the idea I am proposing would be an addition to the turn system without completely revamping said system. I call this concept: Priority.

What is Priority?

The concept of priority revolves around allowing certain spells to be cast first regardless of turn order. These spells would thus have “priority”. We have seen the concept before in PvE battles with bosses who interrupt a turn cycle to cast their spells(this also means this system could more easily be implemented). Priority would work similarly to this, allowing a spell to be cast at the beginning of the round even if you have turn disadvantage. This will help to mitigate some of the pain of going second and lead to a better PvP experience if correctly implemented. 

How will Priority be Assigned?

As I envision this new system: certain rules would be applied to determine the order spells would be cast. Spells would start at 0 and gain +1 or lose -1 priority for each criterion listed below that they meet. On the turn spells are cast, the spell with the highest priority would go first. If spells are tied on priority then the spells are cast in the usual turn order. Here are my rules for assigning this feature.

1)All 0 pip debuffs/shields are given a +1 priority when cast by the second turn player

Explanation: This allows the second round player to cast defenses before the first round player’s attack mitigating the effect of taking constant open shots without appropriate countermeasures.

2)Dispels are given -1 priority when cast by the first turn player

Dispels have become an increasingly large problem ever since the meta has sped up. In the prior ages dispel spamming was ineffective due to the neutral tempo gain and necessity of an advanced set-up. In this age, shadow spells require no advanced set-up and deal massive damage for very little pips. As such the tempo neutrality that balanced dispels is no longer effective in today’s arena. By preventing dispels from being a perfect counter from first, they become more of a strategic play rather than a lock-out till shadow enhanced death.

3)All damage spells with an effect are given -1 priority. Note- Burning Rampage’s unique mechanics will be counted as an effect.

Explanation: The current meta is dominated by spells that leverage damage and an effect. Spells such as Loremaster, fire beetle and the like are very potent because they leverage damage while simultaneously granting powerful effects. By reducing the priority of these spells they are no longer an auto cast even from first and players have a small incentive to include less dominant cards in deck. 

4)All shadow enhanced spells are given terminal priority

Explanation: Shadow enhanced spells are humongous match deciders that completely dominate the meta. With no buffs a shadow enhanced spell can still take out 1/3-1/2 of a player’s health. Thus I propose giving shadow enhanced spells “terminal” priority. This means these spells will always be the last cast regardless of turn order. By assigning these spells a “terminal” designation, players will be afforded the maximum opportunity to defend from these spells or to offensively challenge these spells from second.

4)Creation of a “Prioritize” Button

Explanation: The prioritize button would be an option that appears when you select a spell on your turn. When you select a spell and the prioritize button is active you can click this button to add +1 priority to the spell you are casting. The prioritize button could only be used on the spell you selected to cast that round. The prioritize button would activate every third round for the second turn player and every fourth round for the first turn player. Note that the button cannot be accumulated. In effect, you have one activation that refreshes after a period of time if used. If you do not use it you keep it until it is used without gaining additional activations. Finally, the prioritize button is not free. Using the prioritize button from first will result in 5% of your max health backlash damage. Using it from second will result in a 2.5% backlash. A prioritized shadow enhanced spell would still cast after every other spell but would be cast before a non-prioritized shadow enhanced spell. This adds an interesting way for players to attempt to tweak the priority of cards relative to opponents while giving the second turn player some much-needed love. 

How could Priority be Implemented?

Wizard101 Dueling DiegoPriority would have to be implemented as a PvP only consideration. This will allow it to have no impact on the PvE community at large which would ease implementation. This will also allow PvE to maintain the status quo that many PvE players enjoy while also allowing that portion of the game to remain relatively simple. This system could be implemented with the start of a new age in PvP. Diego would have a tutorial explaining the basics of the new system to anyone entering the Arena.

What do you think of this Idea? Let us Know in the Comments Below!

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  • nobody

    a better system (in my opinion) is the one old cob uses, where after so many rounds the turn order gets reversed. this would mean both side will get the chance of first turn advantage

    • Luke Death

      But when the order changes, the second person would get back to back moves. And honestly, that’s just spreading out the imbalance rather than fixing it. Your proposal is only fair because it is equally unfair for each player. I’d rather see something that’s truly fair, like Eric’s proposal

      • The Power

        How would the second person get back to back moves unless they stun the opponent who is going first?

        • Luke Death

          Round n: Player one casts first, player two casts second
          *Turn flip*
          Round n+1: Player 2 casts first, player one casts second

          This gives the second player back to back moves. Even if that isn’t inherently imbalanced, the entire concept of one player being forced to make a move without knowing the opponent’s move is completely imbalanced

          • The Power

            I believe you may be misunderstanding. The turns don’t permanently change, spells with higher priority are just able to be cast before spells with a lower priority. The player who started first will always be first and same for the second player, some spells will just be able to be cast before others.

          • Luke Death

            The original poster (nobody) stated that he would prefer a direct flip in turn order every few rounds. He doesn’t want priority, just a simple flip is turn order. This would give back to back turns to one person

          • The Power

            Oh okay, now I understand.

    • LiamWH

      Perhaps add in a 0-pip spell that changes turn order?

      The second player uses this spell, then casts as normal, but on the first turn of the next round.

      Either player could load their deck with these, gaining first turn more readily at the expense of cluttering their deck.

      • Wolf FireBreath

        I actually think there should be a spell that costs at least shadow pip (and some pips) which switches turn order. Not only does this help with the turn problem but also slows down the meta. Liam, the only problem with this is that a 0 pip spell WILL be spammed, there will be the first 7 turns used up on a zero pip spell now both wizards are at full pips and can start their onslaught making the meta even more insane and unbalanced. I think that the priority idea is excellent and will work very well.

        • LiamWH

          Would it play out that way, though? Why would the first player acting on a round simply sit on their pips?

        • O.o

          That’s a pretty good idea but levels 1-94 will be missing out and it really wouldn’t work in a team pvp situation.

  • Deathheart7

    I posted something similar in the w101 message boards but got no replies lol. My idea was to add another stat like the PIP conversion, or replace the PIP conversion with this new stat called “speed”. Im no huge pokemon fan but I heard there is this stat called speed stat. Not only will it further add variety in matches( instead of the boring old “everyone has the same stats”) but it could also fix this problem. Each turn, the system would take both player’s speed stat, then put it in fraction form. If Player A has 300 speed rating and Player B has 100, Player A would have 300/400 chance to go first and Player B would have 100/400 chance to go first. This calculation would be done by the system each turn. Thoughts?

    • Cody RavenTamer

      I kinda like this idea. Not 100% sure tbh, but it is something I can see happening. Although, it seems like it requires a system revamp that Eric was trying to avoid. Since this is an essential stat, it has to be implemented from lvl 1.

      • Deathheart7

        Well i say why avoid it? If it NEEDS a revamp, then it most certainly should get it. And yes it is an essential stat but would something similar to powerpip chance work? gain a certain rating every level. In the end, the rating is dependent on both players. If both have 40 rating, that 40 would equate to 50% while if one had 40 and the other had 360, that 40 would only be 10%.,Then there’s also the problem of higher levels having better “speed”……. problems 😛 Maybe add the new stat for square jewels, where they can be small amounts and thus not too big of a difference. Yes higher levels would have a better chance to be first BUT not as much if we have ratings go to the triple digits. besides, its only “normal/fair” for the higher level to have an advantage no?

        • O.o

          I think it is a pretty fair idea but many gears/spells well have to be tweaked along with it. But maybe instead of critical it should be based on resistance? If that happens then people will actually have a fair chance against juju spammers.

          • Deathheart7

            What do you mean gear/spells would need tweaking? And how does resistance and critical fit into deciding who goes first?

  • Blaze D.

    Sorry, this is out of topic, but is there a website where you can request or look for certain pets for hatches? Wizard central confuses the heck out of me.

    • The Power

      On Twitter there are lots of active Wizard101 Twitter users you can follow who sometimes do hatching giveaways. Usually the post will have a picture with all of their Mega/Ultra pets showing their stats so you can see what they have and request to hatch with one of them.

      • Blade D.

        Thank you. I had no choice but to make a central account. i’m getting a hang of it.

  • The Power

    Making a turn based system truly fair is quite a challenge. I like the priority idea. Since shields have +1 priority from second the second wizard could shield spam to guarantee protection until they have the pips for a stun lock combo. They could then use their priority point on their stun attack and follow up with a strong finisher. This can already be used from first but with this system it can be used from second as well so it’d be very balanced. Obviously that strategy is easily countered via stun blocks/conviction this is just an example of how the system would level the playing field.
    Your excellent creativity would make PvP much more enjoyable, great work Eric.

    • Eric Stormbringer

      Thanks, I’ll fix it.

  • Kris Jackson

    I’m not so sure it’s impossible for Kingsisle to do a complete overhaul of the PvP system. It will be very difficult, time consuming, and cost intensive, and that’s why it’s not going to get done.

    I do like your fix for the turn system however. It kind of reminds me of initiative from D&D.

  • Gunner Stone

    Too complicated for players to remember.

    • Eric Stormbringer

      1)shields have priority from second
      2)dispels and attacks with effects lose priority
      3)Shadow spells always cast last
      4)priority button may help your Spell cast first.

    • Maycastbeans

      I don’t know about that. A well rounded pvper keeps track of all the different jewels, is an an accomplished pet hatcher, probably gardens, knows where the best gear drops, can roughly calculate damage subjected to various buffs/debuffs etc. I think we could pick this up.

  • Timecrokba

    I’m just going to put my idea on how to try and fix the current system (I don’t do much Wizard pvp so for all I know this is a terrible idea): Do what Pirate has done with it’s pvp, have one player go, then the other on their own separate turns, and have the first player be unable to attack on the first turn (They can still buff and whatnot). Sure this system will require a overhaul, but it might do something.

  • Nestor Coronado

    I have an easier way to fix this, by casting first the spell with less pips. That way, we would see lower rank spell being used again. Shadow enhanced spells pips should be counted 2X, against a normal spells.
    Ex. In a PVP battle, first player cast loremaster, while second player cast tower shield. The second player animation will go first, and then the loremaster will hit the tower shield.

    • LiamWH

      I think we have a winner, here.

    • Gilgamesh

      Good idea, actually great idea. But what if both players cast a spell that costs the the same amount of pips? Also, how would all of these priority suggestions work in 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4’s?

    • Eric Stormbringer

      This is a great idea!

  • Baldur Hjoshki

    No. Alternating every 3 or 4 or rounds or a simple Rock Paper Scissors game would be the best route. Honestly, it would be fun, rock paper scissors, I’m telling you. Spell priority is a horrible idea, especially since certain schools have less variety. Storm and Balance without DOT’s attacking into a shield every round? No.

    • Baldur Hjoshki

      I guess I should restate ‘least OP school’ as “least powered, most undercut.”

      • Luke Death

        1. Death is not the worst school and it is not necessary to use any jade gear/high resist gear/ward pets. Storm is much worse in 1v1 and I was able to get nearly 1300 rank from exclusively 1v1 before the crit update last summer without a pet that gave defy or any wards. Secondly, alternating rounds is not a solution that’s good for the health of the game. This gives the illusion of fairness, but in reality, it’s only fair because each duelist has a chance to be in the “broken” first position.

        • Baldur Hjoshki

          1. I am one of the highest ranked deaths in the game. I don’t know of any Luke Death’s that are competing with me in the arena or any max deaths ranked above 1.3 that are not using ward pets, combination jade hat, flat out juju spamming still, or in certain player’s cases, fleeing and then boosting every time they go second. Sorry, but the fact is the odds are stacked against death.

          2. Storm is actually one of the better schools now after the ghulture hoard boots were introduced. They’re able to have 135 damage, something like 58 universal, 75 with ward resist, 42 pierce and massive critical while sacrificing block. That’s broken. Death and myth are the most undercut schools, and have been for a long time.

          3. No. Alternating every 3 turns is a perfectly reasonable solution.

        • Baldur Hjoshki

          I can see my reply to this was deleted, so I’ll try to restate without saying anything that could be interpreted as derogatory.

          I have played death for a long time and remain one of the highest ranked death players. There are no max death players ranked above 1.3 that are not using combination jade hat, ward pets, flat out juju spamming, or coming in the arena with prior knowledge of their opponent, relying on first. Zero. This is because of discrepancies between schools with regard to gear proportions. Thankfully with the introduction of the new boots I can see we’re heading towards unilateral school gear which ultimately will help.

          With regard to storm, there are two notable players I have seen gain over 700 rank in the last week alone without boosting just because of the new boots now giving them an advantage in stats. 135 damage, 58 universal resist, 75 with wards, 42 pierce and a high critical percentage in exchange for sacrificing all block. That is far from being the worst school.

          I still maintain alternating every 3 rounds is the fairest course going forward.

  • sonicflare9

    ,new myth crafted spell idea
    4 pips 80% accuracy does 480 damage to one enemy and steals 1 shield and a 1 blade from the enemy

    • Wolf FireBreath

      Alright, I actually like these but, this is pretty off topic also, what’s up with 18% drop rate? Is that just your favorite number or wuhhhh?

  • Nestor Coronado

    With the idea of using cards with less pips first, we still be using turns. But in a 4Vs4 battle, the hammer of the team won’t have to be in the last spot to get all the blades. Also, if 2 spells with same amount of pips are casted by both teams, the game will run like it is right now (by turns). This change would make pvp more about strategy, (by being able to block an incoming atack the same turn), and would bring a new era of possible combos in 1 turn, and making every pvp match fair to everyone (even the angels or for the jades)

  • James Earthwalker

    Maybe there should be a priority stat? I mean, we got Pip Conversion, so might as well get something that’s actually useful.

    • Deathheart7

      Or speed stat 😛 like pokemon. Something i had suggested earlier in the comments…

  • Cameron

    Easy solution – have a turn break after every move. So player 1 chooses a card, plays it, then player two picks a card, plays it etc. This way both people are ‘first’. You can combat the extra time this takes by reducing the countdown to 20 seconds.

    This is the same ‘system’ that is used in board games like chess.

    • Wolf FireBreath

      Problem is, schools (I’m looking at my very own fire) who have spells that break shields and leave behind buffs will rule in a very scary way. Shields don’t really work if they can be countered so easily. Neither wizard would ever keep a shield up for more than a turn. Originally this seems balanced but this will make the meta more hectic and out of control. The player who attacks more will win ALWAYS. I think the fix to this meta not only lies in the turn system but also in our gear. We need new pvp gear modeled after the old one imo.

      • Cameron

        I don’t agree. The scenario you stated is already in full effect, but only for the person who is ‘second’. The first person can always counter shields easily since they can see them before they attack, not so for the second person. My system would make it even so both people can counter shields.
        A solution would be to possibly introduce spells which do 2 or more shields at a time if you want to be always shielded (but be quite pip expensive).
        In any case, once the system is fixed to being more fair (my system), then you can change the gear and spells to change the meta. System first, meta second.